Episode Notes
This week musical guest Shaun Jacobs, the award-winning singer, songwriter, and producer from South Africa takes us through his songwriter’s journey.
Shaun has received recognition for his versatile sound and critical acclaim for his chart-topping hits, including a SAMA® (South African Music Award) for Best Adult Contemporary Album for Love Can, which you’ll be able to enjoy in this episode, as well as nominations for Best Producer and Best Engineer.
Since his move to the United States Shaun has worked with top songwriters in both LA and Nashville, like “Youngr” that was co-written with Brazilian DJ Bruno Martini and produced by Timbaland with more than 16M streams on Spotify.
Love Can held the #1 spot on the local iTunes chart for 12 weeks consecutively and came in as the 14th most played song in all of Africa against all international music on Simfy for 2013. And that’s not all, Shaun’s music has been featured in campaigns for BMW, Ralph Lauren and Bitmoji, including his single, “Look At Me Now”.
In this interview we talked about the role in society that musicians have of expressing with songs people’s feelings that they don’t necessarily know how to get out. He also shared useful advice for new artists out there, the importance of expressing without fear their pure own sounds and not being influenced by trying to fit somewhere. We also talked in depth about how to constructively deal with rejection, competition and self-demand in the entertainment industry, among many other things!
You can find him on social media as @imshaunjacobs.
Watch his music video “Say You Will Remember Me” https://youtu.be/kwanNreW78I?si=_DTGF-4YPOYprnpW which we mention in the interview, and also this concert at the Coca Cola Dome in South Africa https://youtu.be/F8FTbeMGTiE?si=tUpWDM95TAd9s7L3
Here’s the link to one of his music hits “Hurt” https://youtu.be/V_JkQWWqi08?si=eDbIkpFu3UcP1w8B
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Nicky Mondellini is an internationally known multilingual artist with more than thirty years of artistic career, her voice is heard in commercials on television, radio and digital platforms worldwide. She is the host and producer of La Pizarra since 2020.
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Transcript
Voiceover: This is La Pizarra, a place where we explore creative minds in the entertainment industry on both sides of the mic and the camera. Here is your host, Nicky Mondellini.
Nicky Mondellini: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of La Pizarra. My name is Nicky Mondellini. I’m your host. I’m super excited because we haven’t had a musical guest in quite a while. Today I’ll be sharing with you the music of Shaun Jacobs. I will tell you right away that I am a huge fan and I know that you will become a fan too once you listen to his music. You can find him on social media as imshaunjacobs.
Shaun is an award-winning singer-songwriter and producer from South Africa where he received critical acclaim for his chart-topping hits, including a SAMA, South African Music Award for Best Adult Contemporary Album for Love Can, as well as nominations for best producer and best engineer. Love Can held the number one spot on the local iTunes chart for 12 weeks consecutively and came in as the 14th most-played song in all of Africa against all international music on Simfy for 2013.
Since moving to the US, Shaun has received recognition for his versatile sound, working with top songwriters in both LA and Nashville. He co-wrote the song Younger with Brazilian DJ Bruno Martini. This hit, which has more than 16 billion streams on Spotify, was produced by Timbaland, which features Shaun on vocals and guitar. That’s not all. Shaun’s music has been featured in campaigns for BMW, Ralph Lauren, and Bitmoji, including his single Look at Me Now. He has also written a holiday album titled All My Christmases, which debuted in December of 2020.
Before we go on with the interview, I want to remind you that all of the episodes of La Pizarra are available on nickymondellini.com/podcast, where you can sign up for the newsletter and get a free download of my e-book, How to Deal with the Nos of the Industry. If you’re enjoying this podcast, the best way you can support it is by giving us a five-star rating and sharing it on social media.
[music]
Nicky: Before we go on with the interview, I want to tell you about SquadCast, the platform that I’m using to record most of the episodes of La Pizarra. Besides having excellent sound quality, your guests can join the session from a computer or their mobile device from anywhere in the world. All they need is a stable connection. Squadcast has now joined forces with Descript, the editing platform that generates a transcript while you are editing. Now you can open Descript directly from Squadcast and start editing video and audio right away. Check out all the details at squadcast.fm/?ref=lapizarra.
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[music]
Nicky: Hi, Shaun. How are you doing?
Shaun Jacobs: Hey, Nicky. Good. Thanks for having me.
Nicky: Oh, well, thank you so much for being here and making the time because I want to say, as I said at the beginning, I am your fan. I know we met a few months ago and it was an amazing party there with my cousin Kirstie and Simon, her husband. My son was there and everything. It was just such an amazing experience to hear all of you amazing musicians playing there. It was close to Christmas time. Since then, I’ve been intrigued, and my son, Beau, who has been, playing sports with you and doing other things, he kept saying, “Mom, you got to interview Shaun because his music is just amazing.” I’ve been listening to your music and that’s why I said I just became a fan.
Shaun: You guys are too kind. Thank you. [chuckles]
Nicky: No, we only say we only say the truth. Let’s go back to your story. You have a very musical family, right, your dad?
Shaun: I do. Yes. My dad was a opera singer when I was a kid.
Nicky: Wow.
Shaun: I think at the time I didn’t appreciate how awesome that was and what an accomplishment that was. He used to try and embarrass us in public. When we were at the beach, it was time to go, he would call us by singing an opera song about holiness. The whole beach would turn and look at him and we’d try to hide.
[laughter]
Shaun: My God, go out.
Nicky: Oh, my gosh, how cool is that? I’m an opera geek as well so I would have been fascinated, but I can understand, of course, at your age, it’s, like you say, you don’t appreciate it at that time.
Shaun: [laughs] Fun memories, yes. Full-on tenor soaring across the beach. Yes, right from- all of us kids, I’m the youngest of four, we had music, classical music, I guess, with him. Then my brothers who are older than me started getting into rock music and I was just surrounded by it in the house growing up. I think I started hitting things, banging on whatever I could, couches, or cutlery, tables, and my eldest brother realized that I was doing it in time to the music. I think when I was about four, I started playing the bongo drums just for fun. That was like my first foray into playing music.
Nicky: Wow, the bongo drum. I think that’s like a very natural way for kids to have an intro into music, right? The way you–
Shaun: Yes, the rhythm.
Nicky: Exactly. Exactly. That’s the best, even the most basic or primitive way to follow a rhythm and then it just gets transformed into all of this wonderful experience. Then you start branching out from that, if that’s really in you, which, of course, it was within you. I mean, you went to other musical instruments, right? The way you play guitar is just–
Shaun: I did, yes.
Nicky: Was that your second instrument, the guitar?
Shaun: It was. Again, led by my brothers, they’re both amazing guitarists. They were playing guitar and my brother was like, “You should learn to play guitar.” I was like, “No, no, I play drums.” I was happy on drums. It seemed like too difficult to learn chords and things. [laughs] My brother was like, it’s good to at least know a second instrument, not just to do one thing,” because it always gives you a different understanding. If you play with a group of people and you can understand a little bit of their instruments, it’s very helpful. I started learning guitar and once I learned my first four chords, instinctively started writing songs from that. Definitely, I wasn’t necessarily writing songs on the drums, but playing guitar made me start doing that.
Nicky: That’s amazing. How is it then that- because it doesn’t happen for everyone. Some people, they love the guitar and they play the guitar but to have that transition into where songs, they start coming to you, and, of course, your lyrics are beautiful. They go perfectly well with all of your music. You’re also a poet. I can say that from listening to your songs. How was that for you, that experience of starting to put those two together?
Shaun: I think as an angsty teenager, it’s a way of expressing your depression.
[laughter]
No, I don’t mean to be so dark, but it’s, I guess, I don’t know, I guess it’s just in some people, I guess, you can’t create it if it’s not there. I’m not sure. I don’t know if you can decide to think deeply about something if you don’t or– I never tried to learn how to do it, I guess. It just came out. I feel like, in a way, a songwriter’s role in society is to express things that people can’t express themselves, to put into words things that people are feeling that they don’t necessarily know how to get out.
That’s why we’ll hear a song and we’ll be like, “My word they’ve just said, what I’ve been unable to say, that what I’ve been feeling. That’s when we identify the song. I think that’s a songwriter’s job to do for society in a way. I think it’s in some people and isn’t. I don’t know if you can, make it happen, maybe you can. I don’t know.
Nicky: Yes. No, it’s definitely a talent, a talent to be able to express that, and also it can be such a healing process for you [crosstalk]-
Shaun: Exactly.
Nicky: -going through those things, the dark stages, which we all go through at some point, and some more than others or situations. You also talk a lot about love in your songs and you talk about hope and all that. Is that something that is prevalent in you, it’s something that you wanted to achieve, or have you had a wonderful muse [laughs] [crosstalk]
Shaun: I think, for me, faith is a big part of my life. And I think love and hope are very core aspects of that so I think they come up in the songwriting. I did just want to go back and say, I don’t want to make it sound like, instinctively start writing what you instinctively write is good. Everyone who starts writing songs starts writing very bad songs. Then you [unintelligible 00:09:44] and so craft it from there. I just, yes, wanted to touch on that as well. They were terrible to start with.
Nicky: Of course, you have to start somewhere. You’re not going to produce your masterpiece at the first go. Of course, it’s all a process but it’s a beautiful part of learning and experimenting and having those moments where you’re feeling something and you write it intil you get to where you want to go. You have that vision and have that evolution which has been wonderful.
Shaun: It’s a great feeling when it’s like a catharsis or something has been in you and it just comes out on the page and you can almost look at yourself in that way.
Nicky: Exactly. Do you feel you have several rewrites drafts of your songs or it depends?
Shaun: It depends on the song. I know this with other songwriters as well. I think it feels like the really magic ones are the ones that just happen, but not always. Sometimes the rewrites and really crafting it those become really good as well but often the ones that I think are really special to the artist are the ones that like, “I’ve heard it’s like heaven just opens up and goes, boom, there’s a song. I remember hearing Sarah McLachlan say that about the song The angel. She said that just fell out of her in minutes.
Nicky: Wow.
Shaun: I think, as a songwriter those are often the most special ones because it’s almost like it’s just happened to you more than you’ve had already put the work in. That’s great. That’s when it feels like you really– It’s the most revealing of what’s going on inside you because you haven’t tried to cross. It just happened.
Nicky: It just happens. It’s like the moment is right for that song. It was-
Shaun: Exactly.
Nicky: -the moment that that message had to come through, right?
Shaun: Exactly, yes. There are other songs as well that you have to sit– I mean, I’ve rewritten songs over years before, where I’m just like, “It’s not right. It’s not right,” and I leave it, and come back to revisit it so eventually it starts feeling like it’s right. I’ve heard that with many, many huge hits as well where they’ve written like 23 choruses because it’s so like got the right one.
Nicky: Exactly. Yes, I guess, it’s definitely a work of art, every piece. Some take a lot longer to create and be constructed than others. Let’s talk about your musical influences, of course, besides your dad and your brothers. What types of music would you say are the most influential in your music?
Shaun: I think one of the earliest really strong musical influences I had was right when I started learning to play guitar as well. I remember hearing Zombie by the Cranberries. My brother brought it home and he was playing it. For me, it was a real moment. I was like, “What was that?” I really felt the emotion of music. I was preteen or something, just turning points in my life and that was like a moment for me. The Cranberries became my favorite band for a long time. It made me feel something when I listen to it, especially that album. That was definitely a strong musical influence.
Then, I think I’ve really had a very broad range. I’ve not necessarily been like, “Oh, that’s my–” Well, back in the day, I feel like we used to be like, “That’s my band.” I feel like in today’s world, it’s not so much that anymore. [chuckles] It’s more like, “That’s my song for the moment.” I sort of always a very album-driven person. If I heard an album by an artist that I’d like, I’d really dive into that album and listen to that for a while but really very broad range of music I’ve enjoyed listening to a bit. Starting days was Cranberries.
Nicky: Cranberries, I love that band as well. I’ve also heard, in your songs I hear, we have bluesy tones and you even have like a Celtic influence in there.
Shaun: It’s funny. I haven’t heard that so much. Before coming to America, I’d never listen to blues but- [laughs] they were bluesy undertones which I didn’t know about until I came to America and people were like all right. I was like, okay. The Celtics tone, I don’t know, but I love Riverdance as a kid. My mom loved dancing and so I watched that show. I don’t know, maybe there something about that got stuck in me. I don’t know. Probably, as me trying to do something different and something else and it came out sounding Irishy. I don’t know about Celtic.
Nicky: Yes, it did kind of. I want to introduce now Love Can because it’s, of course, the song that you won with at the SAMA Awards. It’s beautiful. It has all of that. It has that beautiful guitar solo. Let’s listen to it.
[music]
Love can cross borders and love can break walls
Love can unbind us, love can define us
Love can see through what our eyes can’t undo
Love got me thinking love can do anything
Take my hand
It’s not that we’re lost
We’re just plotting a different course than we initially thought
We are free
When we’re on our knees
Put your hand in mine
We’ll make it in time you’ll see
Love can cross borders and love can break walls
Love can unbind us, love can define us
Love can see through what our eyes can’t undo
Love got me thinking love can do anything
Come with me
We’ll find what’s in store
For the heart that is bursting, the soul that is thirsting for more
We are free
Come and see
We’ll make it in time
We’ll find everything we need
Love can cross borders and love can break walls
Love can unbind us, love can define us
Love can see through what our eyes can’t undo
Love got me thinking love can do anything
Anything
Love can unbind us, love can define us
Anything
Love got me thinking love can do anything
Nicky: People can definitely tell now why that song won and the whole album is fantastic. Let me just backtrack a little bit because you also had a very strong interest in horses and you were showjumping as well.
Shaun: That’s correct.
Nicky: Tell me about that.
Shaun: Before, I don’t know, from when I was about nine years old, all through school, I was really into horses and showjumping. My first paying job that I had was actually training people’s horses for them when I was in high school.
Nicky: Wow.
Shaun: It was a lot of fun. I loved it. I used to go after school and take my books and study in the horse paddocks. I have like a portable desk and I just sit there under the tree with the horses in the fields and do my math sums and things on the paper. I just love being out there, being with– My mom was actually an incredibly successful showjumper before I was born.
Nicky: Oh, wow. I did not know that. Oh, okay.
Shaun: Me being born caused her to retire apparently. [laughs]
Nicky: No. It was her choice. Don’t feel bad.
Shaun: Right, yes.
[laughter]
Shaun: She was an incredibly successful showjumper. We moved from quite a farmy kind of town to Johannesburg when I was about eight or nine, actually seven. She just needed to– She missed having the fields and the horses. Suddenly we’re in a city. In order to get out, she took me and my sister to a horse stately yard where you could just basically rent a horse and go for a ride. That was the start of it for me. Loved it and fell in love with it my whole- right through until I came to America basically. That’s something I actually really miss. I wouldn’t want to compete anymore, but I miss riding a lot and having-
Nicky: Of course, yes. Do you–
Shaun: -a horse. It’s a very special connection with horses.
Nicky: They’re beautiful animals. They are.
Shaun: Incredible animals, yes.
Nicky: Just to watch them, it’s amazing. Do you find yourself getting little times here and there where you would go, maybe take your son to have a riding experience?
Shaun: Only once. I’ve only taken him once. We were in Mammoth over the summer, I think last year, and we went for a horseback trail. It made be realize how much I miss it. I’d love to do it probably again.
Nicky: You should do more of that.
Shaun: LA is a very difficult city for it.
Nicky: Yes, I know.
[laughter]
Nicky: It’s not readily available.
Shaun: Not readily available. You got to travel to get to and it’s really expensive. Certainly, one day I would love for him to learn because it was a big part of–
Nicky: Yes, of course. Do you think that he will take up music as well? Do you see him as a musical child?
Shaun: We’ll see. He’s definitely musical for sure. He’s actually written some ridiculously good songs.
Nicky: Wow. Hold on. How old is he now, nine?
Shaun: He’s now nine, yes. Last year in his summer break, one of the things I did with him is I brought him here into the studio, and I was like, “Let’s record one of your songs. I’ll be your hands working the mechanics of it, but you put down your ideas,” and it sounded amazing. [laughs] It was really good. I was super impressed.
Nicky: Like father like son. [laughs]
Shaun: We’ll see. I’m not forcing and pushing him, but when he wants to express it, then, yes, absolutely, I’ll let him do it. He’s got his little lyric book that he writes lyrics in.
Nicky: Oh, wow.
Shaun: He has, honestly, written one song that I wish I had written.
[laughter]
Nicky: Well, there you go.
Shaun: It’s pretty crazy, yes.
Nicky: Oh, my goodness.
Shaun: We’ll see.
Nicky: Another marvel in the making. What instrument is he playing?
Shaun: He’s played a little bit of piano. That’s the only instrument he’s actually played until now. He’s supposed to be learning piano, doing proper lessons, but every time he sat down, he wanted to just play his own thing so we just left him to do that.
Nicky: Do your own thing. Why not? [chuckles]
Shaun: Do your own thing. We’ll see. In school now, they got to choose, they’re going to learn something from next year. I’m hoping he does something like cello. I don’t know. We’ll see.
Nicky: Oh, my goodness. That’s amazing. He is in one of your music videos with my niece, Eloise.
Shaun: He is. [unintelligible 00:22:37]. Have you seen that?
Nicky: Oh, it’s gorgeous.
Shaun: It was so sweet, wasn’t it?
Nicky: I love that. I love that.
Shaun: So sweet.
Nicky: I’m going to link to that in the show notes, as well as all your other things, but I love that. I really love that. What advice would you give to young musicians who just want to make their mark, and then they’re writing and they just can’t seem to find a good way to start. There’s much competition, and then that can be very discouraging sometimes. It could be overwhelming, but that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t try. What would you recommend?
Shaun: I think, obviously, it can be really overwhelming. I think there’s something special when you’re starting out as a young musician in that I feel like it’s the purest form of your own sound that you have. You haven’t really been influenced by trying to fit into this or that yet. You’re just putting out what’s you. When I look back at some of the stuff that I wrote in my earliest years, there’s something really pure about it in that it’s all me. It hasn’t been me trying to conform to anything yet, or trying to make something that’s going to get onto the radio yet, or anything like that. It’s me expressing me.
I think that’s something that’s a good thing. You don’t get that again, because the further you go, the more experience you have of trying to make certain sounds sound certain ways, you don’t get that kind of purity of just you venturing out into this world. I think if you can capture that sound- don’t be scared of having your own sound. Don’t be scared that it doesn’t sound like everyone else. I once heard John Mayers say every artist finds their own sound by trying to sound like someone else but not quite getting it right. That sounds like that.
[laughter]
Shaun: I think, yes, just feeling the freedom to express what comes out of you and not feeling that it’s wrong if it doesn’t sound like everything else.
Nicky: Yes, absolutely.
Shaun: I think that’s because you might just have something special.
Nicky: Exactly. The world needs you, your authenticity. They don’t need you to be a copy of somebody else that’s-
Shaun: Exactly.
Nicky: -out there. People are just thirsty for new trends, new music, new styles, new everything.
Shaun: I think enjoying that and not putting too much pressure on yourself, just enjoying that process. Obviously, with any art form, perseverance is if you want to do it, don’t expect it to be easy. [laughs]
Nicky: Exactly. Exactly.
Shaun: As a juxtaposition to the first thing that I was saying, I think there is a thing of going with your own sound, but there’s also the thing of being humble enough to do take advice. Don’t be shut off or insulted by help that you might get.
Nicky: Constructive criticism.
Shaun: Constructive criticism is don’t take it as criticism, but see the constructive side of it. I can give you an example. That Love Can song that you just played was- I had sent some songs into radio in South Africa, and they came back saying it doesn’t sound like anything we haven’t heard before. They’re like, “It’s fine, but it’s basically not very fresh. It’s not very interesting.” I went back into the studio with the goal of, “Well, then I’ll give you something that you haven’t heard before,” and that song was made to be that-
Nicky: Wow.
Shaun: -and it worked.
Nicky: It’s great because that then, instead of being discouraged, you thought, “Okay, I will rise to the challenge,” right?
Shaun: That’s exactly it. When I got the feedback, instantly, my first reaction is to be insulted by it and say, “Oh, this DJ doesn’t know what he’s talking about,” or to be like, “Step out of my emotion and let’s see, maybe he has a point. If that’s how he perceived it, maybe let me try and approach it a little differently.”
Nicky: Exactly. Yes.
Shaun: That song was when I’d done it, I didn’t think it was very good because it sounded a little different. When I played it for a couple of people they were like, “No, we think it’s quite good.” Yes, a classic example of doubting yourself. I made something, I listened, said, I thought, “No, it’s not good.”
Nicky: How did you feel when you actually got the news that you had won the music award, the SAMA?
Shaun: That was amazing. I didn’t think that was going to happen, but it just been a great journey up until that point because that song really, it exploded on radio, which was great. Then a few other ones did as well. Then they said they wanted to submit me for the award. I was like, “Okay, whoa.” I didn’t even think that would be a thing. First of all, I got nominated, I was like, that’s a great achievement. Then when I actually won it, that was very surprising, very humbling, so, yes, wonderful.
Nicky: Oh, yes. What a wonderful, wonderful feeling to have that. For you, playing live, because I’ve watched the videos there, the whole audience is just crazy, just adoring every moment, absorbing everything. When was the last time that you performed live? Was it in Nashville or before coming?
Shaun: Probably, in Nashville. Not really- I’ve played a couple times in LA but it hasn’t really been the focus of what I’ve been doing. When was the last time I played live? I don’t know. I remember playing before an LA Kings game at the Staples Center outside that, a pre-match thing. That might have been one of the last things I did. I did do a tour as part of a Cirque du Soleil, kind of thing. It wasn’t a Cirque du Soleil but that kind of thing, then a couple of solos, that a bit. I haven’t done a full-on band show since Nashville probably.
Nicky: You’re a very prolific composer now. You’re writing much for very big brands.
Shaun: That’s what I shifted my focus to doing here in LA. I think another big part of it is going through the doors that open to you. Go with the flow of the river. When I came to Nashville and LA as an artist and started doing some sync composing as a side hustle, and very quickly all the avenues opened into that, so I’m not going to fight the flow.
Nicky: Exactly.
Shaun: Let’s go with where it’s going and I quite enjoy it because I get to be at home. I’m not on the road touring. I get to come to the studio during the day and go home and be with my family in the evening, which I love. Basically, all my efforts over the last couple of years have been into composing for, yes, things like brands, writing songs to briefs where companies be like, “We’re looking for something like this that has these specific words” and/or whatever, and I’ll quickly write something and submit it. Some of them, I get, some of them I don’t. Then been doing a little bit more cinematic composing lately. That’s really what most of my effort has been into.
Nicky: You get to really still use all of your talent for music, using your creativity constantly in that. How do you feel it evolving now from performing live to creating all of these songs from there?
Shaun: It’s been interesting because, in a way, it gives me a more focused direction. If I’m composing for something, for a brand, or it’s a picture, if I’ve given the producers and the director what they wanted, then I know I’ve done my job. Whereas as an artist, it feels like you’re never quite satisfied with what you’ve given. You always feel like, yes, it’s not quite it though. You are always second-guessing yourself.
You make a song and you enjoy it while you make it, and then you release it and people are like, “Oh, we like your song,” or whatever. You’re like, “Yes, it’s not quite what I was wanting to do,” or, “It’s not quite me right now.” [laughs] It’s a constant battle you have. Whereas at least when I’m making things for a picture, or brands, or something, if they say, “Yes, that’s what we wanted,” then I know I’ve hit the mark and that gives a lot of satisfaction.
Nicky: Of course, that’s huge satisfaction.
Shaun: In a way, it’s less frustrating than as an artist feeling like you’ve never quite hit the mark that you set for yourself.
Nicky: Yes, of course. You get that immediate feedback there. It’s still the result from all your time and your effort and your creativity, and it feels great to have that feedback right away and for it to be used for such big brands. What is one of the biggest obstacles that you have overcome in your career? It could be the beginning or any point, but some that was very hard for you, but that once you figured it out, it was a magical moment for you.
Shaun: I would say the biggest obstacle that I don’t know that you ever really figure out is there are a lot of closed doors that you’ll get. You make music for something and for everyone that you get, there’s 50 that you don’t get. That’s a big obstacle to when you made a pitch and you didn’t get the pitch to not get down on yourself about it or to start being really negative about everything, but to just get on the horse and go again. Some of them do come through.
I think just understanding that dynamic of don’t take it personally when things don’t happen for you, that you really wanted this thing and you put all your effort into it and you didn’t get it, out of the blue, you do get one, and so just– I don’t know. It’s weird. You got to hold something really closely, I guess, while you’re doing it. You’ve got to be fully invested in the process, and then once you’ve done it, you’ve got to almost completely detach from it, otherwise, things start to become very painful. I think that’s an obstacle that, as an artist, you’re always having to overcome, it just learning to hold things lightly and accept that you get things and you don’t get things.
Nicky: Yes, as an artist in whichever field of the entertainment industry, it is very hard to do.
Shaun: Exactly. I mean, like in acting, or whatever, you go to the audition, you do a great audition and they don’t choose you because they want someone with different hair color, or whatever. You’ve got to learn, I guess, to learn to hold it lightly but to still care. It’s this weird balance that you’ve got to have of still being fully invested in giving your best, but also not being destroyed if you don’t get it.
Nicky: Yes. It’s a delicate balance as you say, but when you figure it out, when you’re able to mourn the rejection, so to speak, because it happens but it also makes you grow. Like you said, for you, it really propelled you into creating that hit song that got the award at that time, and then you feel, “Okay, some go ahead, and make it, some don’t, but it doesn’t mean I have to stop creating unless you get–” We all get strings of rejections one after the next and that do make us reconsider our choice or career path.
Shaun: [laughs]
Nicky: Has that ever happened to you where you’ve come close to, “Oh, maybe I should move back home to South Africa and start showjumping again,” I don’t know, or just something completely different.
Shaun: Yes. I’ve never hit the point of being like, “I’m going to abandon the city and go back.” For me, in some ways, it’s been simplified because coming to America on my visa, I can only work in music. It only allows me to, so I don’t have the option to be, “Oh, I’m just going to go do another career path.” Maybe if I had another option to, there would’ve been times when I would’ve. I don’t know, [laughs] but it is been simplified, all that I can do-
Nicky: Is music.
Shaun: -is music and so–
Nicky: That’s it. Sorry, you’re stuck. You’re only doing music. That’s it, nothing else.
[laughter]
Nicky: We are so thankful that you do because your music is so enjoyable for sure.
Shaun: Oh, thank you.
Nicky: I’m definitely going to link to all of that. Is there anything else that you would like to share? Something that is a special message for musicians or for any artist out there that you think they might need to hear?
Shaun: I think give yourself as broad a range of a skill set as you can is really important, especially in today’s field. Learn to produce, learn to mix, learn multiple instruments. Don’t be too narrow-minded in, “This is my thing, and this is how it’s going to be.” Just try to equip yourself with as much as you can because you never know where the opportunity’s going to open for you. I think that would be quite a good point of advice.
Nicky: I think so too. I think that’s excellent advice. Then a lot of the things that you do, the more variety, the more you bring into your work as well, you’re a more well-rounded person. I think that’s true not only work-wise but in life, you’re not only a showjumper, but you’re also very good at different sports, and so my son tells me. [laughs]
Shaun: Yes. He’s been a little generous. Tennis is–
Nicky: In skiing and– Come on. Tell me about your sports, for example. [laughs]
Shaun: Well, yes, I was a sporty person. I played football and rugby and did athletics. I did quite well in athletics in school, and I’ve only started playing tennis really since coming to America, that I have taken a few points off your son.
Nicky: There you go. [laughs]
Shaun: That’s all I’ve managed when I think he goes easy on me, but he’s like almost a professional.
[laughter]
Nicky: He does okay.
[laughter]
Shaun: Wow. Yes. That’s part of it. We all have to have a lot of different aspects in our lives, just jamming with the neighborhood people and doing sports and just all of the things that make you be who you are, and life experiences.
Shaun: It’s a big pressure release for sure.
Nicky: Oh, yes. We all need that because we are so hard on ourselves, aren’t we?
Shaun: Yes.
Nicky: Yes. It’s like we put so much of ourselves creatively, that’s the part that you’re talking about, just give yourself some grace and it’s not personal. [laughs] Just keep going, keep at it because there are special things in the making that you never know when they’re going to show up.
Shaun: Exactly. A part of it is we have days where we are not great. I have days where I come into the studio here and just somehow feel like I’m off my game, and to give yourself the grace to have those days, to leave being like, “Yes, I don’t know. For some reason, creatively I was just- it didn’t show up today.” I feel like when you give yourself that grace, there are other days in the week where you’ve more than make up for it.
Nicky: Yes, you’re right. We’re not producing machines, we’re not creative machines-
Shaun: Yes, exactly.
Nicky: -spitting out hits all the time or whatever-
Shaun: Exactly.
Nicky: -amazing auditions or the whole thing. No, no. We have good and bad days and so, yes.
Shaun: Yes. You got to try and not let yourself become acidic if you understand what I’m saying. If you get too negative about yourself and it all becomes acidic and toxic and then it’s not going to do you any good.
Nicky: Exactly. We’re all human and take the good with the bad and allow yourself to have shitty days, as well as amazing days because it’s all part of the process, right?
Shaun: Exactly, yes. [chuckles]
Nicky: Oh, my goodness. Shaun, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been a great talk and thanks for all your wonderful advice. You have a YouTube channel and people can also follow you on Instagram. Well, this has been great and if you ever think about going on tour or doing another album, please let me know because I’ll be more than happy to share those news with my audience.
Shaun: Amazing. Thank you, Nicky. Well, thank you for having me. It’s been great chatting with you.
Voiceover: Thanks for joining us on La Pizarra. Want to listen to more episodes? Visit lapizarrapodcast.com or nickymondellini.com/lapizarra, where you can sign up for our newsletter and get exclusive previews of future episodes, as well as resources for your creative business. Tune in next week for another interesting interview.
